What a fantastic job Marc did fitting in a lot of demanding action in just a few panels. Amazing. Also, looks like Dark Maiden is up to old tricks, but dow you know what’s new?
THE KICKSTARTER CAMPAIGN for the SUPERFOGEYS SOURCEBOOK AND ADVENTURE GAME! I’m so, so friggin’ excited about this. We’ve been working in conjunction with the good guys over at Team Frog Studios for months on this and I think you’re gonna see it’s much more than just a game (with miniatures!), it’s a guide to the world of the SuperFogeys. Wanna see? Go now!
Is this a mixture between the old and the new Star Maiden that I see in these panels ? 🙂
Also, happy Halloween. 🙂
Love it! Good stuff!
Oh, and please come and check out the Superfogeys Game Kickstarter! It’s a game! It’s a sourcebook! It’s a miniatures line! And the better we do, the more figures we can do!
-Paul
Now there’s a way to reach across the isles….electrical death!! 🙂 Love the 3 Stooges verbiage on the Enny, Meeny quote…”Hi, Moe”. 🙂 At least I believe that’s a 3 stooges reference, we used to do that in Curly’s voice so it either is or we were some kinda crazy (not ruling out the later).
Jost pledged on the Kickstarter campaign. Hopefully Brock and/or Marc will come up to the Emerald City Con in March to do some signing of the swag. And if they do, I won’t have to pay Tom Racine to take Marc out for a beer. 🙂
Thanks for being an early backer, Greg!
Well Brock, I know you missed our feedback when we all sat back and silently drank in the ‘action arc’, so, since I also have a lot of catching up to do, this’un might be a doozy.
First off, (after catching up on all of the strips to date, and rereading some of the archives) I realized I have three complaints about the strip:
Swifty *has* changed. Somewhere not long after the Bubbles of Time stared appearing, he stopped cursing entirely. Well, he DID curse at The Society of Heroes when he roused them off of their selfish, lazy…behinds… (which, after such a long wait, that was *much* gravity added to his profanity, I admit) but other than that, nada. And it’s never been addressed either. It sounds weird (even to me), but that absence AND lack of closure makes it feel like a piece of him is missing. I love Swifty.
There is the matter of the third-to-last page of the “Fogeybabies” story… I was really disappointed and disconcerted by both Dr. Rocket AND Star Maiden referring to unborn babies only as “fetuses”. That’s a clinical term, to be sure, but even though Dr. Rocket is a cold, calculating man, and Star maiden IS an alien, with an outsider’s P.OV. on our race… To quote Dr. Rocket from the days of ancient Israel, “Our God is an awesome God”.
Dr. Rocket *believes in God* (or DID…maybe his experiences have shattered that faith?), AND he is a *ruthlessly* analytical man. To hear *him*, of all of the characters call a human baby that, says that the character believes the human race to be something to be studied, and not something to be loved (by God, or by him). Anything other reason I’ve been able to think of him saying that babies in the womb are “fetuses” make nowhere near as much sense, in context of the character. It’s the only time I’ve ever disliked your work, Brock, and I almost *hated* that story because of that part. It actually hurt.
It was the eloquently simple closure of Cap actually being a great Dad to Tom, at least that once, (the last page) that saved it for me. Even then, only just.
Which brings me to my third problem- Doc used to be a fervent believer in God! *Used to*! Why has the fact that he is now a killer who looks at babies (perhaps children and adults too?) as subhuman (or sub*him*?), *instead* never been addressed???? Major, major dangling plot thread in our favorite villain’s story!!
As for current story- NO idea where the Zurida story is going, and I like that.
Bring back mega Matt! Have HIM be the hero that Tangerine won’t, or can’t be!!
Tangerine- cowardly, childish extreme for him to go to. He is only swinging from on extreme to another, when he could (yet AGAIN) be doing so much good for someone who isn’t himself! I’m VERY curious as to wjhere HIS arc will go, mostly because he already IS acquainted with fighting for RIGHT, and not vengeance. He DID fight his own wife to the *death* to save their sons *from her*, after all. That’d leave a mark on a man forever. A black one? Easily. Just as easily a white one too, especially if you were already a murderer, like Tangerine.
I look forward to seeing if he learns that he doesn’t *have* to be a study in extremes to do good.
Lastly, Star Maiden. Man, that poor woman’s mind is gonna be reduced to gumbo before much longer (unless something halts all of this destruction being wreaked on her psyche). What will knowledge of having murdered in cold blood DO to her, when our old (or the REALLY old- read: lucid) Star comes back for good(…or long term, anyway)?
Oh yeah- complaints above being what they are, I still really, REALLY hope I can give the kickstarter $200. Believe it.
Eagerly looking forward to the next few str- heck, the rest of this chapter!
Hoo-boy. First of all, welcome back! Glad you were able to catch up. Really enjoyed reading your comments about what you’ve missed. So let’s dig in.
1. Swifty’s lack of cussing. Yes, he does not use profanity as much as he used to. The actual change started happening back in Chapter 4 when Star Maiden slapped him for cussing in front of her. Since then, I’ve slowly–sloooooooowly backed off on the cussing. He’s still given to outbursts, but it’s not so much of an everyday part of his speaking now. I suppose that is a change, but it doesn’t fundamentally change the character and his personality. In my opinion. I welcome disagreement as always.
2. Fetuses. I think what we have here is a real difference in how we view the word “fetus.” I’ve never, ever, ever, ever thought of that word with any kind of negative connotation. I don’t know anyone who does. A fetus is an unborn baby is a fetus. Obviously the word “fetus” is a little more loaded for you. From the sounds of it, it’s closely related to the abortion issue. I’m staunchly pro-life, but whether we’re saying “fetus” or “unborn baby” make little difference to me.
However, it DOES make a big different for the story you’re referencing. The idea was that the SuperFogeys were hit by the Babymaker, reducing them to babies. If they get hit again, they’ll regress even more and turn into something smaller than a baby–a fetus. Unborn baby, in this case, does not work as well, as it’s more about a state of being. I used the word that communicated a “shrinking”–a word with a much more physical connotation. “Fetus” paints the picture much more clearly while “unborn baby” feels like term that would have come off as shoehorned in. It’s less descriptive of the thing I was going for, and more descriptive of the thing I wasn’t.
End of the day: I appreciate your point of view, but I don’t identify with any of the additional meanings you attach to the word.
3. Dr. Rocket’s faith. I think one can safely assume that Dr. Rocket lost his faith along the way. His evil ways have been acknowledged recently, actually. He admitted to not being a good man. Dr. Rocket sees himself as a damned figure, essentially. He knows he’s done wrong, but sees nothing he can do about it and is, quite frankly, past of the point of caring about any of it. He’s numb. He values his freedom and his relationships with those closest to him, and that’s pretty much it. Can he change away from that? That remains to be seen. For now, he’s not remotely interested.
4. Glad you’re digging the current storyline! Lots more with Zurida coming.
5. Mega Matt… Mega Matt… who is that again?
6. Tangerine. I appreciate your viewpoint (which is shared by many readers), but once again I can’t say I share it. Not saying I think Tangerine’s decision is the right one, but I don’t judge him that harshly.
7. Dark Maiden killed before she came to Valhalla. Safe to say that Star Maiden in her loony state isn’t much aware of what Dark Maiden does, but who knows what it would take to get her there…
8. Hope you do support the Kickstarter! More rewards coming! Thanks for whatever you can do.
Whew… that was fun!
I’m glad it was fun- I knew full well I used a lot of strong words in there, but (as I said in my earlier post) I know you’re a man who welcomes discourse, and furthermore, you’re one who reciprocates it just as enthusiastically as you welcome it. You, Jeff Schuetze, and Marc Guggenheim are three of my favorite comic writers for this reason.
1.That’s when it was. I remember now! Allow me to rephrase myself a bit- I don’t think this has hurt the character, but I do miss it (he made me laugh quite often) and it does feel a *little* lopsided a plot thread as it is easily traceable if you go back and look for it, but it’s *only* been emphasized at all, really, at big, noticeable moments, and (as far as I can recall) no small ones- no quiet ones. This makes it feel…not less real, no, but less…solid, I suppose? Hopefully that makes sense. One way or another, it truly is a small thing, that hurts my appreciation of him not one whit.
2. Sadly, *you* (and those around you) are unique in *my* experience- referring to children in the womb as fetuses has been a tool of those who are trying to promote the objectification of babies, and of those who really do only look at babies without compassion, and *only* with clinical interest.
Needless to say, this is a pleasant surprise, and all of my arguments against that story don’t hold water against it. You like discourse, I found a long time ago that I like being wrong.
[I also really need to read the Checkered Man. I enjoyed Mister Brubaker’s art very much as well, and have *looked* at his comic (not read), but I have to say- that costume *should* look silly, but somehow, Denver makes it look *very* film noir. THAT is *talent*.]
Complaint (and all disapproval) withdrawn.
3. See, that’s what I thought, but it seems like *everything* else in this story (the entire comic to date) has been completely explained in words, or at least had much of its major events shown. Your answer is what it’s *felt like* with the Doctor, but compared to all of the other major characters’ expositions, even his own admissions that he’s not a good man felt too small to be taken as the whole story, y’know?
Still it’s good to know that it was *supposed* to be big and unhidden, but *quiet*. Partly because that’s how the degeneration of a brilliant mind usually happens when it does, but because when any of our hearts turn to darknbess, it’s almost *never* loud, anyway.
In short, I had seen everything you said above already- I just didn’t think I was right. ^^;
(Thank you for the clarification!)
4. I am *especially* intrigued by what might or might not happen with a certain statue, as well as a certain fatherless son…*especially* since he seems like he’s about to find out he’s not only got a father, but a brother…
5. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!
6. I think you misunderstood me here- I’m judging harshly, yes, but not *him*- I’m looking at his *actions*. And hey, I *do* count the fact that Captain Emo is only alive today because of Tangerine rescuing him as a huge positive!
7. Oh indeed! I know! Er, remember! I was trying to refer to *all* of her killing.
8. Good Sir, I will throw whatever I can in the hat, and do it happily- I just have that $200 mark as my brass ring. 🙂
I am pro-life also, and I understand that in certain areas of the pro-life universe the word fetus is considered denigrating and an attempt to “de-personize” the unborn child. I have never seen it that way. A fetus is a stage of prenatal development which follows the embryo and ends when it is a viable birth. It is scientific and clinical and was in use for decades (maybe centuries) before the abortion debate flared up in the sixties. It *is* the proper term for a human being at that stage of development.
In general, Mormon pro-life positions are not absolute and the Church feels it is allowable if there is danger to the mother and if it is from rape or incest, but *only*after much counseling with the Bishop (pastor) of the mother and much fasting and prayer on the part of all until a confirmation from the Holy Spirit is received by all. It is not ever the preferred solution. The Church also defines abortion as being “like unto murder” and not as being murder. This also tends to make Mormons not as strident (use harsh invective) about abortion. But abortion has been labeled by several prophets (President) of the Church and several Apostles as one of *the* great evils of our time.
First off, Holaved, thanks for the good dialogue. You’re right–I don’t mind engaging and I don’t mind disagreement. I love it, in fact.
WGC, that’s a good summation. My views mirror the Church’s.
It interests me to make a comment about Dr. Rocket’s character development – his journey from faith to atheism, if you will. This was not a big problem to me. Elsewhere I mentioned I have studied why some people lose faith and turn to atheism. I know people that have struggled with that battle. Here’s some thoughts:
Whenever a person is hit by something extremely large – like the death of a parent or loved one – well… What they are really made of comes forth, I guess. I don’t have the time to reword myself once I think of a better way to put it. But… There are some people in life who start out having some sort of faith or belief in God, but their belief isn’t yet well-rooted. They are not anchored. They don’t fully understand. Although they are zealous about their beliefs, they are not yet prepared to face disaster unscathed. So when something horrible happens – like being abducted by aliens, knowing that everyone you ever loved or cared about was either killed or dragged off into a Babylonian captivity and later died of old age, much about the faith you once had has drastically changed through the past 2,000 plus years to the point that you don’t recognize it anymore and aren’t sure about the new additions to it since you were pulled from the time stream, if modern science tells you that supposedly God is dead and has been supposedly disproven and that biological evolution, natural selection, and a big bang that triggered itself replaces a need for God and suddenly you are thrown into a world where, having no God, there is no absolute, universal right or wrong, good or evil, meaning no accountability to a Creator God and Judge, and you have not too long ago harbored a severe and deep rooted hatred and bitterness and desire to murder your captors – a hatred that eventually was turned around to the God whom you thought would protect you because He is “awesome” but instead allowed you to be abducted and tortured and experimented on for over 2,000 years by aliens – yes, you might go the way of the atheist and the villain. Having decided that “God” doesn’t work for you, that might seem attractive. More likely than not, Dr. Rocket asks himself, “How can there be a good, loving God?” The world is filled with natural disasters, tsunamis, tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, cancer, animal attacks, hatred, violence, war, starving and dying innocent children, murder, corruption, and crimes I cannot even mention here (and let’s not even get into the doctrine of eternal damnation). Many people of faith – like Billy Graham’s old friend Charles Templeton – have lost their faith in God because the God they believed in was a God who would protect and shelter everyone from all the pains of life and death. However, they fail to realize that this is not the God of the Bible. They are not grounded in their faith so, when things fall apart, so do they. They are actually right to leave behind the false view of God they previously harbored as experience has shown them that it is not grounded in reality, but sadly neglect to delve more into their faith to discover where their views were incorrect, and, so, reject God altogether, thinking that God is the problem and not their own understanding of Him. Essentially, I want to add, that hating God for the horrors of life doesn’t prove that He doesn’t or can’t exist, but leads such people to not want to believe He exists, and thus claiming they find reason to believe that He doesn’t. If He did exist, they reason, they do not want such a horrible God that would allow such horrors to go unchecked and unpunished. They feel God has betrayed them and now they themselves turn a cold shoulder to God. Any rationality or reasoning that helps ease their intellect into believing there is no God is highly welcomed at this stage.
However, the Bible addresses this problem. But, as much as I do not want to leave this comment on the negative note that I had in the above paragraph, and although Brock is a believer like I am (although from very – or at least somewhat different – viewpoints, I imagine), I don’t want to post too much religion on here or go too off topic, especially not without Brock’s permission, as that sort of thing, like politics, sometimes gets out of hand, sadly. So, for the rest of my original comment, please follow this link to my deviant art page: http://cartoonistwill.deviantart.com/journal/SuperFogeys-Review-Dr-Rocket-s-Faith-to-Atheism-336582132
Anyway, past that, I have to be honest: I have NO idea about Captain Spectacular’s faith. My current guess is that he may or may not have beliefs about God, but it is possible that he hasn’t given it much thought in a long, long time. If I remember correctly, during the alien abduction he did at one point say to his friend, who would become Dr. Rocket, something about God saving them. Then his friend said, “Who? Who will save us?” or some such and the man that would be Captain said, “I… I don’t remember…” This was otherwise a strong indicator that Dr. Rocket had, at this point in their youth, already given up on God. It seems apparent that Dr. Rocket knew exactly who the good Captain was talking about, but simply had already by this point given up that belief that a good God exists and would come to their aid. Anyway, my apology for forgetting the exact dialogue. I think I got it mostly correct.
Wow, Will, great to have you back! I really enjoyed this read and I think you’ve got some really insightful observations about Dr. Rocket and his faith and how people lose it. I think Dr. Rocket took a journey very, very similar to the one you’ve outlined here–though all of it happened in his youth. For him, it was a loss of faith first, a desire to do right second.
Great thoughts, man! Oh, and I read the rest of it on your page as well. I don’t mind stuff like that here so long as people remain respectful. Your perspective is a little different than mine, but you stated the case well, I thought.
P.S.-
I mean… please have Matt save the day?
Matt… Tracker? Headroom? I’m sorry, who do you mean?
HA. M.A.S.K., Max Headroom, and other obscure eighties references for $500, Alex!
I’ve tried posting here but it hasn’t gone through. I’m thinking gravatar has a glitch. Forget what the original post was, but just testing to see if I can get through.
With any luck, it was just their servers having storm trouble.
I’m bummed to hear that. Glad you got through eventually. Maybe you’ll remember what you wrote later. We’ll be coming back around on these themes soon.