The alien invaders have desired Dr. Rocket for quite a while that they might make him answer for his crimes. As far as the SF Universe is concerned, there’s no one who has done more damage or more wrong than Dr. Rocket. He is an out and out villain. Never pretends to be otherwise. And yet… I’d say you guys are way harder on guys like Tangerine and Captain Spectacular. I find that fascinating. On the one hand we’ve got a couple of guys who are trying to do right thing but sometimes failing, and on the other we’ve got a guy who does what he wants and makes plenty of people suffer along the way.
I’m fascinated by the way fiction can sometimes change our rooting interest. My sense is that you LIKE Dr. Rocket more as a character and that’s what inspires the leniency, but am I wrong about that?
What do you think?
I like Dr. Rocket because he has an interesting history and because he plays his own game. And because Harvey likes him, and I trust Harvey.
You are doomed.
It’s not that we like Dr Rocket more, it’s that we respect him more.
Dr Rocket has never made any excuses, any rationalizations. He’s a straight-up rotter. He admits that, he’s comfortable with it, he’s willing to accept it.
Captain Spectacular and Tangerine insist that they’re good guys. But then they turn around and rationalize their personal behavior. Tangerine murders a surgeon – he just says “he’s a villain”. The Captain ignores a giant robot rampage – he says “I’m retired” and “My slot machine’s about to win”.
Dr Rocket is a selfish prick, but he owns up to it. He’s not a hypocrite about it. That is something to respect.
That’s why I like Spy Gal and the Herman Dr Rocket. They’re people who have made mistakes and they own up to them. I respect them. And why I like Swifty – he never made any excuses for himself, he’s just an honest jerk.
And why I hope to see Jerry die. He lies even to himself about what sort of bastard he is.
I like the distinction between like and respect. I think that probably has a lot to do with it.
But whoa… hate for Jerry. I actually kind of love that. I remember ages ago getting a review of SF that called Jerry out as a one-dimensional character. That’s not something I hear anymore.
Dark Lord v3.2 sums up my feelings too.
Except for Jerry. I like Jerry as a character, I think I’m one of the few people who do. I like Jerry because after all the years of being treated like a tag-along useless kid brother with everyone underestimating him, he turns out to be the most cunning, under-handed, manipulative and downright dangerous individual of all. That makes him a really interesting character, because he has a perplexity that none of the others have.
Cap’n Spectacular is an idiot, Tangerine is an idiot AND was a horrible person. Dr. Rocket is a villain but honest about it. Jerry’s the only one whose entire life and identity is a pile of complex deceptions.
You’re not wrong. The one thing I’m really looking forward to is digging deep into Jerry and see his complexity laid bare. He’s kind of been on the backburner for a little while now, but that’s about to change in a big way.
Personally, I tend to judge fictional characters against their own ideals as well as my own standards. Dr. Rocket is unapologetically evil, but he doesn’t have any ideals that he’s failing to live up to, so I can enjoy reading about him even though I’d hate him in real life. Tangerine and Cap, on the other hand, try to be “heroes” and fail at it, sometimes not even seeming to care about heroism in favor of more selfish pursuits (Tangerine’s warped “justice” and Cap’s apathy). That’s frustrating, and I imagine at least some more regular commenters than myself would agree.
See, I’m the opposite. I have a lot of sympathy for people who try and fail. I’VE tried and failed. A lot.
I don’t think doing bad is all that difficult. Doing what is right is what is difficult. The fact that Dr. Rocket succeeds so spectacularly is his evil–and unapologetically–shouldn’t that make us hate him? Forgive me for this… but wasn’t Hitler unapologetic?
But you said it… “I can enjoy reading about him even though Iād hate him in real life.” Fiction makes it different. We demand different things from “characters” in fiction than we do in real life.
It’s a weird reversal, but in real life, I’m generally the same as you. I have a lot more sympathy and respect for people who get what they have in life through persistence and constant effort. And for what it’s worth, I’m personally fond of Cap- I think he’s just tired after a long career and all the losses he suffered during it. Tangerine, though… I don’t think he was really trying to do the right thing during his career. He thought it was right, but to some degree so does Dr. Rocket- I’m fond of the expression “we’re all the hero of our own story” when taking about people like them. Tangerine might be trying to do right now, but that’s a different chapter of his life.
Eh, I saw this coming…as it is Castro that you’re using here… š
Yes, never trust anyone who parades around in a black speedo.
That’s almost all of Europe!
Gross. Europe’s the worst!
Doc Rocket’s 3 biggest “failings”
He started to do good but then went back to evil. OK, so that was really Herman who started to do good, but Herman was such a minor character otherwise that it’s sometimes easy to forget that it wasn’t the real Dr. Rocket.
He helped The Third Man build a jet that transforms into a killer robot and didn’t foresee how things could go wrong. OK, so as a bad guy his plans tend to fail otherwise he’d be ruling the world right now, but as a bad guy he should also have the ego to see the flaws in a plan that he didn’t personally think up. Yes, Dr. Klein sort of blackmailed him into building the robot, but a good villain would have ound some sort of loophole around that. And then he flies in the jet/killer robot that he built and doesn’t recognize it or see the potential for very bad things to happen.
He powered the robot with his greatest defense. That was just foolish.
Are you defining “failings” as screw-ups?
In his favour – “Oh girls, I’ve missed your lack of self-respect,” is possibly one of the best and most honest villain quotes ever.
Heh.
The thing that makes Dr. Rocket more likable than Capt. Spectacular is the fact that he’s not actually apathetic. He actively seeks to avoid getting involved in the various problems that occur. He pretends to not care, but when you think about it, most of the issues he avoids would actually be easier for him if he did something. Whether or not his view is justified (personally I think it is) it is very annoying for us readers.
Just to clarify… are you saying Dr. Rocket avoids getting involved or Captain Spectacular? I think you mean Captain Spectacular. Clearly, that was Cap’s modus operandi at one point. But what do you think of him now that he’s trying to be more actively engaged?
I don’t think people “like” Dr. Rocket more than Captain Spectacular, I think the Cap frustrates readers. With all his immense power he could have easily stopped so much trouble that the rest of our beloved Fogies endured. I think this is a great compliment to your skill as a writer. Think about it, how many fictional characters can you say you’ve ever been frustrated with? It also shows how you’ve created a cast of characters your readers care enough about to be frustrated by his inaction. I think your characterization of him is brilliant. With all his power he’s still just a man and it’s his emotions are what brought him to his sorry state. As for Dr. Rocket, I think you crafted a very human villain that people can relate to in a way and did it with an admirable subtlety. My all time favorite strip is # 255, and the exchange between Dr. Rocket and Jerry about why he wanted Tom dead. He’s a twisted, evil man but still loves Ms. Missile and tries to be a “responsible” father to her the best way a monster like him can. By killing a man he doesn’t think is good enough for her. I for one, have also not counted Dr. Rocket out just yet despite the recent events. This is the founder of The Lodge of Doom and a perpetrator of xenocide we’re talking about. Even if he’s an elderly man with cancer, someone who terrorized not only Earth but much of the galaxy – even taking on the dread Space Pigs – shouldn’t be underestimated.
I think you’re the first person to ever put forth the idea that reader frustration is a GOOD thing. I like it. For me, the test of any character’s likability is directly related to how interesting they are. I know that’s not true for everybody, but that’s what I like so that’s what I write to.
I love how long your memory is. The meat of Chapter 9 often gets overlooked because of the big reveal at the end, so I love it that your focus is more on Dr. Rocket. Thanks for chiming in!
Oh, I am completely with Andrew- partly in Cap frustrating me often and Dr. Rocket being someone I can sympathize with (if not like) often, and partly in oh my, yes. One of my favorite book series is up at the top of my list because the characters are so immensely REAL that the hero’s very, VERY long string of stupid decisions almost had me screaming at one of the books (no, I do not mean that figuratively.).
I think it has more to do with the standard of behavoir we expect of heroes more than anything else. We expect more of Spectacular as a person because he is the good guy than we do of Dr. Rocket. Dr. Rocket is enjoyable as a fictional character because he can actually do what he wants without regard for others, except possibly Harvey and Ms. Missile. Granted what he did while off planet was actually for what the parties involved had done to him and Spectacular over the years of thier imprisonment, torture, being used as guinea pigs, and maybe even things that happened after thier escape, so it is possible he still cares about his old friend in some manner despite thier adversarial relationship.
Spectacular has always been held to a different standard than Dr. Rocket for years however. He’s had all the expectations and demands placed upon him that could be expected for a hero of his power set and notoriety. He’s basically had to pay the price for being Captain Spectacular. He’s been under preassure and public scrutiny for years. He’s paid a personal price in performing the duties expected of a hero of his standing and in any failures that have occured along the way. He’s probably had to do every standard superhero job from averting war, rescuing hsotages, getting cats out of trees, to getting chineese take out from China because someone intern forgot to get a caterer for the next White House dinner. The final analysis is that he burnt out. Everyone has thier breaking point and he finally hit his. When you finally stop caring enough to do something it’s easy to look at a situation and go “not my problem.”
That said he is more human than many heroes in other comics. He hasn’t been the best husband, father or person most of the time. He might make excuses for those and other failings, but he still knows he messed up, let folks down, and it bothers him.
I think Valhalla has actually been a good thing for the Captain though. He gets to hang out with his old friends, the villains there usually aren’t trying to kill him, and it dragged him out of what seemed a rather toxic situation when he was simply living by himself. He’s still a bit burnt out on the whole hero deal, but he has been slowly starting to care more about the people and things around him. Whatever the end result of Jerry’s little plan winds up being, I think it will be more of a benfit to Spectacular than originally intended.
I must admit though, I’ve really enjoyed learning more about Soviet Sam. I think he’s been harder on himself about what happened than anyone else and has in some ways been punishing himself since then. He actually does seem to earnestly want to be a good guy. During the Vegas robot attack and afterwards when he was checking the news, he seemed so ecstatic to actually be doing something geniunely heroic or good for a change.
I really look forward to seeing how all the characters’ journies turn out.
“Everyone has a breaking point.” I don’t think you’re wrong about that. And I think you’ve done a great overview of Cap’s history here. You’re right about his life as a hero–I haven’t shown much of it (read some Marvel or DC comics to get the gist), but your suppositions are right on. Cap did ALL of that, and more. I think that tends to get forgotten because the focus in the SF story is after all of that.
More love for Soviet Sam! I dig it. Expect him to continue to be very much a part of things going forward.
Mr. Lapierre, you done did it again. Even though he is less than half the size of a pencil eraser in the last panel, oh, I can look at Harvey and tell that one day in Cuba, there shall be a reckoning… (if he can catch a ride out there)
Dr. Rocket is what makes the other heroes, if you didn’t have him the others would never have stepped up to the plate. He brought the other bad guys together to be threat. I doubt Spy Gal would have turned good if Dr. Rocket hadn’t been the one creating a disturbance. I don’t like Dr. Rocket and think he needs to be brought down for what he’s done as he has not changed his ways even facing his own death. Jerry also is not someone I could like or respect but has my contempt. These characters make you care either one way or another and that’s what makes them vital to the story, if you didn’t have them, the good guys and the bad with their faults it wouldn’t grab your attention as a reader. You should be proud that you have created something that invokes a real emotional response brought out by your readers as you have made characters that are very human and very realistic.
1) Without Dr. Rocket, there is no SF. If only Captain Spectacular had returned from the alien experiments, rather than he _and_ Dr. Rocket, there would have been no interplay between the two Boss characters. So, Dr. Rocket is vital to the story (basically, it would have been hellishly boooo-ooring). I mean, sure, Cap’n is powerful and all, but everyone secretly oots for the villain. Think about literature and film: Who’s the hero of Paradise Lost? Satan, the Ultimate Big Bad. Which character is most memorable from Time Bandits? The kid with no name? King Minos/the firefighter? God? Nope, it’s Satan, who scared the living bejeepers out of me after I saw it as a kid (wouldn’t get near a toaster oven for years, I tell you, YEARS!)
2) Of the characters, I think Jerry is the most multidimensional (and that doesn’t count being able to open up dimensional holes). There’s lots of depth there. It just needs to be plumbed, though he’ll lose, like Jerry always does. Sad, that.
3) I lurvs me some Soviet Sam! Go, Sam, Go! Though that might be the Space Pig urine talking.
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It’s probably for the same reason why we detest hypocrisy in people we know in real life: we don’t hold Dr. Rocket to the same standard as we hold a “good guy” like Tangerine or Jerry. They claim to stand for what is right, the right thing, goodness, heroism, etc. So when they fail to live up to their own standards, we get ticked off and judgmental. However, when Dr. Rocket, who is honest about who he is, does evil, we are not let down. He is simply acting to type, according to his nature, and we expected that. We are not surprised or shocked. But when a good guy lets us down – we were expecting them to do the right thing, and when they fail, letting us down is exactly what happens. We can’t stand that kind of hypocrisy, that kind of being dishonest about yourself and your nature. In that way, Dr. Rocket is more honest a man than even Jerry. And that disturbs us.